Secular Café: CBC Blames AIDS on Polio Vaccine

Secular Café Discuss atheism, religious apologetics, separation of church & state, theology, comparative religion and scripture.

CBC Blames AIDS on Polio Vaccine Apr 1st 2012, 03:23 Not making this up. The stupid! It burns! This really is from "Christian Broadcasting." (Not loaded: LZs1V8mpcoY&feature=related) :dunno::bang::eek::rolleyes:

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Secular Café: New hot cross bun campaign shows man admiring his companion's bum

Secular Café Discuss atheism, religious apologetics, separation of church & state, theology, comparative religion and scripture.

New hot cross bun campaign shows man admiring his companion's bum Mar 31st 2012, 22:16 Quote: Aldi goes gay with new Easter ad German-based supermarket chain Aldi has gone gay for Easter with a tongue-in-cheek advert for hot cross buns. The British TV ad, which is currently going viral on social media platforms, features two men sitting on a sofa, enjoying a pot of tea with two brands of buns on their coffee table. Hot cross buns are a traditional British treat at Easter. The raisin-filled sweet rolls are topped with a cross which symbolizes Jesus' crucifixion. As the difference in price is pointed out by one of the men, he stands up to pour the tea, provoking his male companion to comment that he has nice 'nice buns'. 'Thank you,' the man responds, without flinching. Cont. http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/a...aster-ad300312 (Not loaded: vZ4tI4-zTGU) I wonder what Stephen "Birdshit" Green will have to say about it? :evil:

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Secular Café: What does in God’s image mean? He created Adam & Eve without a moral sense.

Secular Café Discuss atheism, religious apologetics, separation of church & state, theology, comparative religion and scripture.

What does in God's image mean? He created Adam & Eve without a moral sense. Mar 31st 2012, 20:13 What does in God's image mean? He created Adam & Eve without a moral sense. I take, in God's image, to refer to God's and our mental image and not the physical. God does not look like us in any way. He and his form is quite alien to us. Genesis shows that Adam & Eve were created without the moral sense that would make them like Gods. That being the case, they had to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil to be in God's mental image. That is without a doubt a requirement to the development of a moral sense and is confirmed by God after Adam and Eve disobeyed his command to stay dumb and without a moral sense. If they were created in God's image then they would have already had the moral sense that comes from the knowledge of good and evil and would therefore not have been tempted by Satan to eat of the tree of knowledge because they would have had that knowledge already. This would also mean that God was punishing them unjustly. One must conclude from these biblical facts, that God did not make mankind in his image. The only other logical alternative is that God does not have a moral sense and that he too, like Adam and Eve, was basically as dumb as a cow. Could that be why God is shown as doing other immoral things in scriptures? The two main ones that come to mind is God having his own son murdered for the forgiveness of sin when there was no real need to and the genocide of Noah's day. Does being in God's image mean not having a moral sense? Regards DL

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Secular Café: Christian TV Grifters In Trouble, Again

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Christian TV Grifters In Trouble, Again Mar 31st 2012, 11:56 http://www.care2.com/causes/christia...ble-again.html Why am I not surprised? Quote: A massive scandal is engulfing the world's biggest Christian broadcasting network. California-based Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN) has been hit by a lawsuit from members of the family of founders Paul and Jan Crouch alleging widespread embezzlement. The suit details massive spending on private jets, mansions in California, Tennessee and Florida and a $100,000 mobile home for Jan Crouch's dogs paid for through sham loans. It follows the termination of Brittany Koper, the granddaughter of Paul Crouch. The suit alleges Koper discovered the illegal financial activities, conveyed her concerns to ministry leaders, and was told to keep quiet. The charges also include allegations of spending by the ministry that helped cover up sexual scandals and a discrimination lawsuit. These include the alleged "cover-up and destruction of evidence concerning a bloody sexual assault involving Trinity Broadcasting and affiliated Holy Land Experience employees; the cover-up of director Janice Crouch's affair with a staff member at the Holy Land Experience; the cover-up of director Paul Crouch's use of Trinity Broadcasting funds to pay for a legal settlement with Enoch Lonnie Ford (a former TBN employee who said he had a homosexual affair with [founder] Paul Crouch)." TBN preaches the "prosperity gospel" which promises material rewards to those who give generously. Since it was set up in the 1970s it has become the biggest Christian TV network with a presence on every continent except the Antarctic and has 18,000 affiliates. It also owns the Holy Land Experience, a Christian amusement park in Orlando. Their shows feature such highlights as Jan Crouch tearfully giving an account of how her pet chicken was miraculously raised from the dead. Or Benny Hinn prophesying that if TBN viewers will put their dead loved ones' caskets in front of the television set and touch the dead person's hand to the screen, people will "be raised from the dead…by the thousands." TBN took in $92 million in donations in 2010 and cleared $175 million in tax-free revenue, although the recession has dramatically hit what it rakes in from its followers. The network has fired back by pointing out that the lawsuit comes from family members who were themselves accused of embezzlement, though those charges were dismissed, and called the allegations of excessive spending "fabrications." The lawsuit follows quickly from revelations that David Cerello, CEO of Inspiration Networks (INSP), was paid a salary of $2.5 million from his ministry in 2010. Californian pastor John MacArthur writes of TBN: If the scheme seems reminiscent of Tetzel, that's because it is precisely the same doctrine. (Tetzel was a medieval monk whose high-pressure selling of indulgences — phony promises of forgiveness — outraged Martin Luther and touched off the Protestant Reformation.) Like Tetzel, TBN preys on the poor and plies them with false promises. Yet what is happening daily on TBN is many times worse than the abuses that Luther decried because it is more widespread and more flagrant. The medium is more high-tech and the amounts bilked out of viewers' pockets are astronomically higher. (By most estimates, TBN is worth more than a billion dollars and rakes in $200 million annually. Those are direct contributions to the network, not counting millions more in donations sent directly to TBN broadcasters.) Like Tetzel on steroids, the Crouches and virtually all the key broadcasters on TBN live in garish opulence, while constantly begging their needy viewers for more money. Elderly, poor, and working-class viewers constitute TBN's primary demographic. And TBN's fundraisers all know that. The most desperate people – "unemployed," "even though I'm in between jobs," "trying to make it; trying to survive," "broke" – are baited with false promises to give what they do not even have. Jan Crouch addresses viewers as "you little people," and suggests that they send their grocery money to TBN "to assure God's blessing." Thus TBN devours the poor while making the charlatans rich. God cursed false prophets in the Old Testament for that very thing (Jeremiah 6:13-15). It's also one of the main reasons the Pharisees incurred Jesus' condemnation (Luke 20:46-47). It's hard to think of any sin more evil.

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Secular Café: Sinead O'Connor on Religion

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Sinead O'Connor on Religion Mar 30th 2012, 20:49 Excellent Interview (Not loaded: zISrjcxAiXg)

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Secular Café: Kansas Advances Religious Right to be Anti-Gay

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Kansas Advances Religious Right to be Anti-Gay Mar 30th 2012, 19:10 http://www.care2.com/causes/a-religi...vances-it.html Oh...crap...it never stops...... Quote: A religious right to fire someone because they're gay? Kansas House lawmakers, both Republican and Democratic, just advanced a bill that says yes, it is a matter of religious freedom. Reports LJ World.com: The bill was approved 89-27. [...] The measure is supported by Gov. Sam Brownback's administration, the Kansas Catholic Conference and Concerned Women for America of Kansas. It was opposed by Lawrence officials, the Kansas Equality Coalition and the state chapter of the National Organization for Women. Right before advancing the Kansas Preservation of Freedom Act, the House gave preliminary approval to putting a chapel for prayer and meditation in the Statehouse. Both proposals will require a final vote before going to the Senate. Those votes will probably be taken Thursday. The "Kansas Preservation of Religious Freedom Act," as it is known, apparently comes as a reaction to the college town of Lawrence passing an anti-discrimination ordinance that includes sexual orientation. Lawmakers said they were keen to ensure that citizens' "religious right" to freedom of expression was not impacted by local governments exceeding state law and enacting sexual orientation-inclusive nondiscrimination rules. However, when lawmakers were discussing this bill earlier in the year they even seemed to admit that they were using their religion as an excuse to discriminate. Reports the Advocate (emphasis mine): "I don't think an ordinance should trump other people's religious rights," said Rep. Jan Pauls, a Democrat on the Judiciary Committee that heard testimony about the bill. During a forum earlier this year, Pauls gave an example to explain why she backs the bill, saying an employer should be allowed to fire a "cross dresser." "The question is personal belief as far as religion," she said. "Should that be trumped by forcing people to then support a lifestyle that they don't support due to their religion?" "If this law were passed," Pauls explained, "people could bring up their religion as a reason that they did not want to follow the ordinances." While the bill received overwhelming support during Wednesday's vote, some lawmakers did stand up against it, including State Rep. Charlie Roth, R-Salina, who said that Kinzer's legislation was "homophobic." He reportedly went so far as to say that the bill would hurt Kansas' image because "it sends the message that Kansas is not welcoming. Kansas will become known as the land of the pure as defined by the few." This bill is similar to one passed in Tennessee last year that nullified local ordinances that exceed state level protections. The Kansas bill would appear to fall just short of that by packaging this as an opt-out clause rather than a provision that, short of Legislature action, serves as a blanket ban on sexual orientation-inclusive provisions. This is likely to try and fend off legal challenges like the one currently underway in Tennessee, but the chilling effect on civil rights is essentially the same — lesbian and gay citizens would remain vulnerable to workplace, housing and credit discrimination, and local government powers will be curtailed. What is perhaps worse in this case however, is that the state Legislature is explicitly attempting to write into law an overreaching provision for religious privilege.

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Secular Café: Xenophobic Bill in Tennessee Would Limit Foreign Teachers

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Xenophobic Bill in Tennessee Would Limit Foreign Teachers Mar 30th 2012, 13:01 http://www.care2.com/causes/xenophob...-teachers.html Another example of religious privilege - for the xians.... Quote: A conservative group in Tennessee is pushing the state legislature to pass a xenophobic bill that would place limits on the number of foreigners that the state's charter schools can hire, in a thinly veiled attack on the Muslim community. The Putting Tennessee First Act says that the state's chartering authority may not approve schools where more than 3.5 percent of their staff is made up of immigrants, even if they are legal residents of the United States. The Tennessean has more: The Tennessee Eagle Forum, which drafted the bill, is affiliated with the Eagle Forum, a national organization that wants to reduce the number of visas available to foreign-born workers and opposes the use of textbooks that it sees as favorable to Islam. The Eagle Forum is a national group run by anti-Equal Rights Amendment activist Phyllis Schlafly, who has called feminism the most "destructive force in our society today." The state group has tried — and failed — to pass discriminatory laws in the past. Last year, they authored the Material Support to Designated Entities Act, which would have labeled some Muslims terrorists if they were found to be practicing Sharia Law in the state. The bill failed after civil rights groups loudly objected. Senate Republican Caucus Chairman Bill Kentron is a sponsor of the bill, and he has thus far denied that religion played any part in his decision to support the bill. But another Republican, Sen. Jim Summerville, told the Tennessean that he believes the bill's supporters are concerned with Islamist groups infiltrating charter schools. Some of the most vocal opposition to the bill is coming from other Republicans in Tennessee. Sen. Stacey Campfield said that he has no problem with foreigners teaching in schools if they're here legally. And others have said that the limitations on whom schools can hire will hurt students.

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Secular Café: Catholic Church Blocks Birth Control For Poor in Philippines

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Catholic Church Blocks Birth Control For Poor in Philippines Mar 30th 2012, 13:09 http://www.care2.com/causes/catholic...ilippines.html I fuckin' hate the RCC.... Quote: Filippino President Bernard Aquino is backing a bill that promises free or subsidized contraception for women, especially for the poor. As a story in Bloomberg describes, the bill was actually introduced in the legislature 14 years ago but has been blocked every time by the Catholic Church. About 37 percent of pregnancies in the Philippines are unplanned, says the World Health Organization, with at least one-third ending in an illegal and highly unsafe abortion, says the Guttmacher Institute. Moreover, it is the poorest fifth of the country's population that has the highest birth rate. The 2008 National Demographic and Health Survey found that the poorest women have an average of 5.2 children, while the wealthiest women have an average of 1.9. In addition, 44.1 percent of women aged 15 to 24 in the bottom income bracket have begun to have children. The Bloomberg article opens with the story of 34-year-old Lorna Villar, who has given birth seven times in the past fourteen years. She and her family live in one of Manila's poorest neighborhoods, Tondo, in a 215 square foot room, on the 7,000 pesos ($160) a month that her husband earns from driving cranes and a tricycle taxi. The Guttmacher Institute estimates that by making modern birth control — the contraceptive pill, condoms, intrauterine devices and others — available to all women in the Philippines, there would be 2,100 fewer maternal deaths and 500,000 fewer induced abortions each year. According to Bloomberg, 34 percent of Philippino women aged 15 to 49 use modern birth control. The country's population growth is currently twice the average for Asian countries; its self-rated poverty rate was 52 percent in 2012. As activist Carlos Cedran points out, with the Philippines' population nearing 100 million, a lot more has to be done than just "teaching the poor." Likhaan, a non-governmental organization that provides modern birth control and where Villar had her IUD fitted, says that providing contraceptive to all Philippino women means go a long way to reducing unplanned pregnancies in young women and improve their economic circumstances. Currently women wait as long as two hours to obtain condoms and birth-control pills at Likhaan's clinic. President Aquino's support could be key to passing the bill to ensure that all women have access to modern birth control; it is hoped that the measure will be put to a vote in congress in the next three months. About 80 percent of the Philippine's 95 million people are Roman Catholic and the Church seems likely to try to block the measure again. "Who are we to say that five children are too many? Children are gifts. If you interfere with that, you are denying that creative role God gave us," says James Imbong, assistant legal counsel to the Catholic Bishops' Conference of the Philippines in Bloomberg. But should not the Church do more to help those — certainly including women — living in deep poverty to have a better life and better prospects?

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Secular Café: Forced conversions hike Pakistan minorities’ fears

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Forced conversions hike Pakistan minorities' fears Mar 30th 2012, 11:03 Quote: It was barely 4 am when 19-year-old Rinkal Kumari disappeared from her home in a small village in Pakistan's southern Sindh province. When her parents awoke they found only her slippers and a scarf outside the door. A few hours later her father got a call telling him his daughter, a Hindu, had converted to Islam to marry a Muslim boy. Only days later, Seema Bibi, a Christian woman in the province of Punjab, was kidnapped along with her four children after her husband couldn't repay a loan to a large landlord. Within hours, her husband was told his wife had converted to Islam and wouldn't be coming home. Seema Bibi escaped, fled the village and has gone underground with her husband and children. Hindu and Christian representatives say forced conversions to Islam have become the latest weapon of Islamic extremists in what they call a growing campaign against Pakistan's religious minorities, on top of assassinations and mob intimidation of houses of worship. The groups are increasingly wondering if they still have a place in Pakistan. "It is a conspiracy that Hindus and Christians and other minorities should leave Pakistan," says Amar Lal, the lawyer representing Kumari in the Supreme Court. "As a minority, we feel more and more insecure. It is getting worse day by day." In the last four months, Lal said, 51 Hindu girls have been forcibly converted to Islam in southern Sindh province, where most of Pakistan's minority Hindu population lives. After Kumari disappeared from her home on Feb 24, Azra Fazal Pachuho, a lawmaker and the sister of Pakistan's President Asif Ali Zardari, told Parliament that Hindus in southern Sindh were under attack by Islamic extremists. Cont... http://pukhtunkhwatimes.blogspot.co....l?spref=tw&m=1

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Secular Café: What does the Vatican do about its banking scandal?

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What does the Vatican do about its banking scandal? Mar 30th 2012, 09:38 Try to cover it up, and investigate who is the source of the leaks, of course. http://www.npr.org/2012/03/29/149614...-over-finances Quote: The Vatican has launched a rare criminal investigation to uncover who is behind leaks of highly sensitive documents that allege corruption and financial mismanagement in Vatican City. The documents also shed light on purported infighting over the Vatican Bank's compliance with international money-laundering regulations.... ...The Vatican has never denied the authenticity of the various leaked documents. But Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi reacted angrily on Vatican Radio. "The U.S. government had Wikileaks, the Vatican now has its leaks," Lombardi said. "They create confusion and bewilderment, David

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Secular Café: Salvation Army and Public Schools

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Salvation Army and Public Schools Mar 30th 2012, 01:50 I received an email blast from the principal of my kids elementary school saying that the kids are coming home with a notice and a bag to be used to donate unneeded clothing to the Salvation Army. The Salvation Army is a Church which uses charity as a vehicle to spread Christianity. They require an oath of adherence to their religious beliefs among employees and are known for being hostile to equal rights for gays. They maintain their right to discriminate in hiring based on religion even when using federal money to fund the program. Officers of the Salvation Army are required only to marry other officers of the Salvation Army. While the SA claims that they don't discriminate against anyone who needs assistance, there are numerous reports of them discriminating against gays in need of assistance. The public school where my kids go claim that the school doesn't discriminate on the basis of religion or sexual orientation. However by doing this to support the activities of the Salvation Army, it appears to me that they are supporting discrimination on the basis of religion and sexual orientation. They are also supporting one Christian sect to further it's mission - spreading Christianity through charity. Should I complain?

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Secular Café: If God/Jesus does not know sex and reproduction, he is not fit to dictate it’s laws.

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If God/Jesus does not know sex and reproduction, he is not fit to dictate it's laws. Mar 28th 2012, 12:30 If God/Jesus does not know sex and reproduction, he is not fit to dictate it's laws. If God/Jesus, does not know of man's sexuality, then he has no right or just claim to dictate our sexual conduct. He does not have the skill set or knowledge required to judge. No carnal desires, no wife, no pure born children, no chemical reaction in his brain, or sexual desire for a wife without reproduction being the reason. God/Jesus' only opportunity to learn of man's sexuality is through Mary, his mother. If God does know of our sexuality then it can only be through incest. There is also the issue of bestiality. Jesus and God are not of our species. God cannot know of the desires that men and women have in terms of sex. He cannot know the forces at work. These forces are mostly all chemical and physical. That means that God cannot know what penalties to assign to the various desires that are acted upon by man's instincts. God would not know if those instincts can be denied or not or when a normal healthy desire crosses the line to insanity. Should man's sexual laws be dictated by a Jesus/God who cannot know what sex for humans is all about? Regards DL

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Secular Café: a YT vid I found rather moving

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a YT vid I found rather moving Mar 28th 2012, 13:13 An account from someone who devoted many years of his life to Pentecostalism, which I was sent via email from YT service (Not loaded: wfUr7IxCmrA) I told him I'd post a link here, and rather hope he shows up. David

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Secular Café: Escape to Newage Wooooo Mountain

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Escape to Newage Wooooo Mountain Mar 27th 2012, 14:52 http://theness.com/neurologicablog/i...wage-mountain/ Another "2012 is the end" bunch of clowns.... Quote: Part of the human struggle is to understand the world around us, to understand ourselves, and to have some level of control of our lives by being able to predict at least the basic patterns and rhythms of the world. Ancient cultures made calendars and monuments to help them predict the seasons, for example. Accurate knowledge is difficult, however, especially since we live in a world that is far more complex than the one in which our poor monkey brains evolved. One advantage of the skeptical world view is that it seeks to understand the weaknesses and biases of human cognition, and it respects accurate knowledge over our emotional desires and needs. Skeptics attempt to see the world as it actually is, not how they might want it to be. Examples of what can happen when you take an unskeptical view abound. Take, for example, the people gathering at the small French village of Bugarach. In their attempts to understand the world and have a sense of control of their lives by predicting important events in the future, they have come to the come to the conclusion that the world is going to end on December 21, 2012. The end of the world is a pretty big event, and if you truly believed this was going to happen that would be very disturbing. It is no surprise, therefore, that this commune of New Age believers gathering in Bugarach have a second belief that is their salvation. They believe that a mountain near the village, Pic de Bugarach (pictured here) is a magical mountain. It's part Roswell and part Shangri La. They believe that the mountain has magical energies, and is a focus of alien attention, sometimes called the "alien garage." The result is a confluence of superstitious belief – Mayan calendar end-of-the-world predictions, new age magical energy/mystical locations, and UFO religious cult. One of the new agers, who calls himself "Jean", summarizes it nicely: "The apocalypse we believe in is the end of a certain world and the beginning of another," he offers. "A new spiritual world. The year 2012 is the end of a cycle of suffering. Bugarach is one of the major chakras of the earth, a place devoted to welcoming the energies of tomorrow." The UFO component appears to be plugged in directly from movies, showing how entertainment both reflects and influences culture. The fact that UFO's like to visit mountains that peak up over their surroundings is right out of Close Encounters and the Devil's Tower. The notion that aliens would come to the earth to save a select few from the end of the world is the plot of the 2009 film, Knowing. Some local officials are apparently worried that the local hippie UFO commune will turn into another Heaven's Gate. It is concerning that they believe they will be given a ride on a UFO and taken to a "spiritual world." Perhaps they will reason that you have to shed your physical body in order to get to spirit land. This view may become more compelling when it is apparent that no physical flying saucer is arriving to take them away. I hope not, and feel this is probably unlikely. It would probably require an influential cult leader to orchestrate a repeat of Heaven's Gate, and this situation sounds more like a commune, but we will have to wait and see. Of course the Mayan calendar nonsense has been deconstructed by skeptics many times. There is no reason to think that the end of a calendar means the literal end of the world. There is no evidence that the Mayans even believed this. Further, the Mayan calendar, while pretty accurate for its time, missed certain astronomical details like the need for leap years, and so the world should have ended last year if there were any truth to the Mayan prediction thing (or I guess next year, depending on how you look at it). From a skeptical point of view the show affair is rather sad. These people are trying to understand their world and just have some sense of control over their lives, but their methods are hopelessly dysfunctional. They have been lead to the conclusion that the world is going to end but they, the enlightened few, will be saved by magical beings from the sky, only to enter a new spiritual age. The thematic resemblance to the Christian Rapture is probably not a coincidence. What will happen when the world does not end on December 21, 2012? We have the past to help us predict what is likely to happen. True believers who predict a major event that does not come to pass generally do not experience a loss of faith, as you might predict. They do have a crisis which causes considerable cognitive dissonance, but they generally do not resolve that dissonance by concluding that they were wrong, their methods were therefore wrong, and that perhaps they should be more skeptical in the future. Rather they tend to double down, invest even more in their faith, and find some way to rationalize their apparent failure. Harold Camping, for example, when the apocalypse did not occur last Spring, concluded that it did occur, it was just an invisible apocalypse (he claimed it was a "spiritual" apocalypse not visibly apparent to anyone but him). I therefore predict that those heavily invested in the 2012 end-of-the-world belief will conclude that we experienced some sort of spiritual transformation – an invisible end of the world. Can't you feel it? I also predict that the failure of the end of the world to take place by the end of 2012 will not in the least dissuade the next apocalyptic prophet from predicting the end of the world.

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Secular Café: Christian Privilege & Christian Supremacy

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Christian Privilege & Christian Supremacy Mar 27th 2012, 14:09 http://atheism.about.com/od/christia...anism.htm?nl=1 The cited article is mostly links - If you're interested, I'd read them at the link...it's too laborious to convert them all here.. Quote: Christian Nationalism, Christianism in America: One of the most significant developments in American Christianity in recent years has been Christian Nationalism. An ill-begotten blend of extreme nationalism and even more extreme Christianity, it would supplant liberal democracy with illiberal theocracy. Few Christians are conscious adherents of this ideology (also known as Christianism, Christian Supremacy, Dominion Theology, and Christian Reconstructionism), but many have been seduced by milder forms like Christian Privilege. Christian Privilege & Religious Privilge: Most battles in the Christian Right's so-called Culture Wars can be best understood if seen as attempts to reassert and enforce Christian privilege in modern society. One of the hallmarks of modernity has been the rooting out of various forms of illegitimate privilege, with Christian and religious privilege being among the last. Religious Privilege Christian Privilege Hidden Christian Privileges in Society Muscular Christianity Christianism, Christian Nationalism, and Christian Supremacy: Christian Supremacy encompasses a moral attitude and a political program. Morally, it is the idea that Christianity is superior to other religions, and therefore, that Christians are superior to non-Christians. Politically, it is an agenda to get America's political institutions to reflect this by favoring Christians over non-Christians. Christianism, Christian Nationalism Christianism, Christian Supremacy Christianity in the Confederate South Christian Identity Hitler, Christian Nationalism Christian Reconstructionism, Dominion Theology, and the Christian Right: The Christian Right doesn't accept the doctrine that American law and public institutions must be governed like a theocracy, but it accepts most Reconstructionist theories, premises, and solutions. Dominionism & Dominion Theology Christian Reconstructionism Leading Reconstructionists Reconstructionism & Christian Right: Common Goals, Beliefs

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Secular Café: Atheism and Faith

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Atheism and Faith Mar 26th 2012, 15:35 Quote: Originally Posted by Road Warrior (Post 348011) Quote: "We asked for apples-to-apples treatment to the (Christian) event," said Griffith. "We fought for it. I won. I think (Fort Bragg leadership) won too because they did the right thing." Seems only fair. If the US Army is going to open the door for an Evangelical Christian event, then the same door should be held open for other faiths including Atheism. I was with you right up to the last 2 words :-) Atheism isn't a faith...it's the absence thereof.

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Secular Café: What Is Anti-Atheist Bigotry?

Secular Café Discuss atheism, religious apologetics, separation of church & state, theology, comparative religion and scripture.

What Is Anti-Atheist Bigotry? Mar 27th 2012, 13:36 http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistb...gotry.htm?nl=1 Another article pointing out why "putting up with it" is a bad idea... Quote: The strength of anti-atheist bigotry in America is undeniable. Surveys regularly show that atheists are the most despised and distrusted minority in the nation. But how exactly does this anti-atheist bigotry manifest? How do religious theists — Christians, primarily — express or act on their bigotry towards atheists? What does anti-atheist bigotry in America look like? Deny Atheists' Equal Humanity The most fundamental and serious expression of anti-atheist bigotry in America is to deny atheists' very humanity on some level. The worst form is to deny that atheists have any reason to be moral because morality requires gods and/or morality proves the existence of gods. This sort of hate-mongering feeds the perception that atheist can't be trusted, a frequently cited reason for discrimination against atheists. Something very similar is expressed by saying that atheists have no reason to care about other people or can't teach their children the difference between right and wrong. These false claims feed the perception that atheists don't have the same values as normal human beings, thus causing people to conclude that atheists are at least untrustworthy if not somehow inhuman. The most extreme expression of this is the one that is also the most literal: the idea that atheists are tools of Satan, are satanic, and/or are demonic. It's a literal form of demonization that encourages people to regard atheists as completely unworthy of all the same rights, consideration, and dignity normally according other human beings. It also helps encourage people to not give any thought or attention to anything atheists might say. Deny Atheists Really Exist Denying that atheists are even "real" is a popular way of denying that atheists should be treated as equals. You don't have to give any consideration to people who don't really exist or who are lying about who they really are. Some Christians will claim that atheists can't exist because atheism requires something like knowing everything. Others will insist that atheists can't exist in difficult situations like foxholes. Whatever the specifics, the purpose is to portray atheists as unreal in some fashion — and unreal people aren't really people. Refuse to Take Atheists Seriously The simplest expression of bigotry is probably the refusal to give any consideration to what atheists have to say. Not taking someone seriously isn't inherently bigoted, obviously, but it can become bigotry when you dismiss an entire class of people for no other reason than that they belong to that class. Not taking someone seriously merely because they are black or female is obviously bigoted and the same is true if it's merely because they are atheists. When this happens, it's usually in the context of dismissing atheism as a mere fad, as something pursued simply because it's "cool," and similar rationalizations. In every case, the purpose is to cast atheists generally in a negative light and discourage others from paying attention to anything atheists have to say — not because of the quality of their arguments, but merely because they happen to be atheists. Deny Atheists' Political Equality The political inequality of atheists in America is undeniable. More people admit that they would refuse to vote for a political candidate solely because they are an atheist than any other minority. Only one politician at the federal level has admitted to being a "nontheist" and none will use the "atheist" label. The distrust and dislike of atheists is simply too extreme and just about all of that can be laid at the feet of preachers and pastors who keep pushing their anti-atheist messages. Keeping atheists in a position of political inequality is important if they want to preserve all of the unjust privileges Christians have managed to acquire over the decades. Deny Atheists Social Equality Distrust and dislike of atheists extends to the personal and social realms as well. Just as more people would refuse to vote for atheists than any other minority, more people would object to their child marrying an atheist than any other minority. People who are atheists are frequently afraid to reveal their atheism to coworkers, friends, neighbors, and even families. Imposing social stigmas on atheism encourages atheists to remain silent and invisible. That invisibility encourages others to assume that atheists are few in number and that there is something shameful about atheism. And that, of course, reinforces the social stigmas on atheism. It's a vicious cycle which serves no purpose outside of fear-mongering and hate-mongering. Assert Personal Superiority Through Privilege The most insidious expression of bigotry is the assertion of religious privilege or Christian privilege. It's insidious because it's not directly about atheists; instead it's about religious believers generally and Christians in particular being treated as if they were special and thus deserve privileges unavailable to anyone else. Sometimes this comes in the form of small benefits and sometimes it comes in the form of outright supremacism. Either way, though, it's a form of bigotry because it's based on the idea that membership in a particular class (religious, Christian, evangelical) confers a superior social, cultural, and political status over other classes. It's obvious bigotry to say or believe that whites should hold exclusive power or be treated as if their expectations should be catered to. Why isn't it as obviously bigoted to say or believe that Christians should hold exclusive power or be treated as if their expectations should be catered to? The most extreme forms of this are known as Dominion Theology and Christian Reconstructionism. Dominionism is the Christian doctrine that Christians have a divine mandate to rule over all humanity, or at least over America. Christian Reconstructionism is a movement dedicated to "reconstructing" American law, government, and culture along Old Testament lines — with particular emphasis on the ancient laws found in the Pentateuch. Christian Reconstructionists are relatively few in number, but they have had a lot of influence on the Christian Right and many aspects of Dominion Theology have become important for the Christian Right.

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Secular Café: An interesting anecdote...

Secular Café Discuss atheism, religious apologetics, separation of church & state, theology, comparative religion and scripture.

An interesting anecdote... Mar 27th 2012, 04:35 Night before last, my wife and I had our annual Celebration of Friendship party -- I call it "The Attack of the Giant Party" -- with 100-150 of our friends in and out during the evening for snacks, drinks, and conversation. It takes a lot of preparation -- my wife makes all the food from scratch, while I mostly fetch and carry -- but it's always great fun. Before we were married, I was a bit of a hermit; now I have more friends at once than I have ever had, all put together, over the course of my whole life. I'd estimate that half of the people who came were Jewish. One was a young woman (well, younger than us; 30 or so) who sits with us every Friday night at services. My wife calls her our "Shabbat daughter," and she's become a dear friend. Afterward, the three of us, plus another friend who rarely attends shul, and occasionally another couple or two, all go out to dinner for conversation and good food. During the course of the evening (at the party), in the context of another religious/ethical discussion, this young woman casually remarked, "I'm not sure if there's a God or not. I don't think about it very much." That surprised me, though perhaps it shouldn't have. Even though we have attended services together for more than a year, the subject had never come up. Another Jewish person there, a man, said, with a dismissive wave of the hand, "Yes, neither do I. That's not the point..." And the discussion moved on to other subjects with no further concern with the existence of God. No one seemed particularly interested in pursuing the subject. I thought that was interesting. I was reminded of an informal survey I took among my friends during the years I was going through the conversion process: I asked my Christian and Jewish friends, "What does it mean to you to be a Christian?" or "...Jewish?" It wasn't long before I was able to predict, with 100% accuracy, not the specific answers, but the KIND of answers I would receive. The Christians, every single time, would begin speaking of what they believed; the Jews would begin speaking of who they were. Like I keep saying; in the Jewish religion, belief just isn't much of an issue, and God isn't at the center of concern -- where He is an object of concern at all. I can't imagine a remark like my friend's being so casually glossed over in Christian circles. Or perhaps in atheist circles, either. Just an experience that I thought might be of interest. See, I'm not the only one.

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Secular Café: This Section has Changed My Life..

Secular Café Discuss atheism, religious apologetics, separation of church & state, theology, comparative religion and scripture.

This Section has Changed My Life.. Mar 27th 2012, 01:31 .. I have been getting antsy about crime novels I usually enjoy and finally it dawned on me that I can't escape any longer so I've been nose buried in heavy stuff re Christianity and ah feels good...

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